Maidstone Area Rail Users Group

What a joke, the revised timetable means the chance of connecting to the 8:06 Cannon Street service at Paddock Wood is a thing of the past. Monday we achieved it, Tuesday we arrived well after the service had left, today we arrived at the same time and had to watch it leave before we set foot on the bridge over. The staff at Paddock Wood are worse than useless, they say the service is not "connecting" despite the timetable saying different and in any case they have no platform staff to hold the Cannon Street train. The simple solution? return the 7:43 from Maidstone West to 7:39.

I also had the misfortune to be on this train this morning. A couple of female passengers told me the same thing had been happening to them for the last fortnight (i.e. they had missed the Cannon St connection because the train from Strood/Maidstone West was late and the connection was not held).

According to the timetable there should be a 4 minute gap between the train from Strood arriving at Paddock Wood and the Cannon St train departing but in practice even Usain Bolt would struggle to cross the footbridge to catch the connection.

I agree with the above correspondent that the train from Strood and Maidstone West should revert to the old timetable and depart 4 minutes earlier ; even then the Cannon St connection was only guaranteed to work when the latter was late (which was quite often).

Missing the Cannon St connection and having to catch a later train to Charing X is particularly frustrating for those passengers who want to travel further east in London, especially as the fast trains from Ashford to Charing X and Cannon St via Maidstone E and West Malling have been scrapped and people now have to travel further west to Victoria on slower trains.

Lets begin with general complaints and then follow up later with specifics:

1. Hardly any Blackfriars trains run to schedule.

2. Lack of information and clueless station staff. Last Monday 8th Jan an announcement was made that the Blackfriars to Ashford service was cencelled, the train turned up two minutes later.

3. Rubbish or no information on live departures board.

4. Ad hoc timetable changes. one day last week The West Malling to Blackfriars service which is normally fast from Bromley South, was without any notice turned into a slow service after Bromley.

5. Last Thursday 14 Jan amidst a load of cancellations the Victoria to Maidstone service which is normally 6-8 carriages was run as a 4 carriager which then stopped outside Bromley whilst we were crowded like sardines.

I would keep going but I'm off to catch the coach, at least I'm not putting money in SE Trains coffers.

I too have experienced the worst commutes in 2010, in my 10 years of commuting to London. I don't believe I have had a journey home this year that hasn't taken me at least 2 hours due to train delays and problems getting to Victoria. I use to get either the 16:14 or the 19:14 from Cannon Street so my journeys home previously took 1hr 15 mins so the journey disbenefit quoted by Chris Mole is more than 15-30 mins. Last night when my train was delayed again (with only 4 carriages so we were like sardines) and yet again I got in too late to see my son before he went to bed, I burst into tears! I know it sounds dramatic (also struggling with being pregnant and the stress this is putting on me) but it is really effecting my life, I always said maximum commute for me should be 3 hours a day which is more than enough to get the 30 miles into London, but my journey is taking more like 4 hours a day. Chris Mole does not think of what it means to peoples lifes when he says a "journey time disbenefit"and then quotes incorrect numbers! 5 hours a week extra i am spending due to poor services into the City where I work. The worst journey I have had this year took 4.5 hours!!! I am really mourning the loss of the 16:14 and 19:14 from cannon street and can't believe demand for these services were too low, there were more than 200-300 people on these services that got off at west malling and maidstone east each day. I don't have a car and have tried many alternative routes on the trains but nothing seems to save me any time. It seems that Southeastern have made no connections easy as they are trying to push people onto the high speed trains by getting rid of any services that could possibly compete with these. I am at a loss of what to do apart from move from an area I am happy in. I am at breaking point!

Since the removal of the fast Maidstone East to Cannon Street service, I too have been forced to rely (for want of a better word!) solely on the Medway Valley Line/Paddock Wood service. I would guess that since the introduction of the revised timetable on 13 December, I can count the number of times I've made the 0806 Cannon Street train from Paddock Wood on one hand. And I suspect the number of times I have caught the 0743 from Maidstone West to Paddock Wood is no more than double that. Southeastern have effectively left Maidstone's commuters with no direct links to the City and are failing miserably to serve them with the only alternative left, being the Medway Valley Line service. They should reschedule the 0743 back to 0739, as on the previous timetable, and/or reschedule the 0813 Charing Cross from Paddock Wood service to call at London Bridge to give City commuters some chance of getting to work in a reasonable time! Not to mention reintroduce and extend into the rush hour the fast Maidstone East/Cannon Street trains the town deserves.

I have spent up to six hours' travelling to and from work each day over recent weeks (in fact one day seven hours!), having had to travel to either Victoria from Maidstone East, or London Bridge or St Pancras via Strood, when the Paddock Wood services have been disrupted, and even then was asked to pay an extended fare for the previlege of using the HS1 despite earlier trains having been cancelled! Many journeys have been unbearably cramped when disrupted services have turned up four to eight carriages shorter than scheduled.

To make things worse, communication from Southeastern has been appalling. Departure boards, station staff, websites and station announcements have all been providing conflicting, inaccurate information.

Yet I am paying an increased fare for this ever-deteriorating service!

Congratulations South eastern, following my comments above you have now managed a hat trick with today’s 7:43 arriving at Maidstone East at 7:48, we feared the worst, the driver did his best to make up the time and as with yesterday we arrived at the same time as the cannon Street service as our doors opened the doors on the Cannon Street train closed. Let us see what happens tomorrow!

Yesterday I missed my coach so by necessity went to West Malling to find the 7:53 was cancelled at 5 minutes notice without any explanation.

The next train at 8:29 turned up with only 4 carriages so two train loads of commuters were crammed onto a short train like battery hens. so yet again we had a very hot and uncomfortable journey. At one point the conductor requested that some of the stops be missed out because of the crowding but SE Trains said no.

When you take the service reductions from the new timetable (8 per day?) cancellations in 2010 (average 4 per day?) and the shortened trains, SE Trains are running between 45 and 60 carriages less every single day.

Given the recent fare increases, we as passengers by accepting this are being treated as total mugs. SE Trains are raking it in and only paying minimal compensation to those who bother to complain.

This whole situation is offensive and totally disgusting

The 0818 from Maidstone West arrived seven minutes late at 0825 this morning, missed the 0850 connection from Tonbridge and the 0902 (due to arrive at London Bridge at 0940) did not arrive until 0953. Total delay was 27 minutes. Yet again I was half hour late for work, with no explanation whatsoever as to why either train was delayed.

Thanks for your comment Paul, which I think actually highlights the poor state of the service we get. When a statement such as

“True half of the traction motors were not working but the train was pretty much on schedule until it reached Herne Hill when it was delayed”

becomes acceptable the service is in a pretty poor state. Yes the delay at Herne Hill was out of the control of South Eastern, but the service was 10-15 minutes late arriving to Herne Hill in the first place. This might be ok if it was a one off, but trains are now regularly running 10 minutes late, many with no reason at all. Is this acceptable?

The state of the rolling stock is another matter altogether, toilets constantly locked out of use and doors that wont open are also a regular occurrence. Commuters have become so used to a poor service that these sorts of delays and breakdowns become the norm and people don’t feel that their comments will be heard if they complain, so they no longer bother to do so.

By asking people to openly post their complaints we hope to be able to challenge South Eastern as a group on issues facing commuters such as the lack of connecting trains at Paddock Wood. There may only be a few people leaving comments at the moment but it is a start!

If some people are happy to pay more money for less services then more fool them!! People are rightly moaning as this is a shocking service for the country town of Kent. It should be improving with more services available not being reduced

I have written to the transport minister to highlight my long journeys into the city following the change to the timetable, and even when the evening trains from the city were completley full and needed. I have received a reply suggesting I firstly buy a car, drive up to 20 miles to a station that goes into the City and this is how I will get a good service.

So even though I live in the country town of kent which has 3 stations, and parking in the town centre where I live is a nightmare, I must buy a car and drive (not sure this meets with any green policies??) and this is what he suggests for the other 300 commuters in the area who want to go into the City and are effected by this service being cancelled.

Where does the minister suggest the 300 of us park out new cars as I don't any station could handle this increase???? Its madness

Someone from West Malling has found the link to South Eastern's performance figures for P10:

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/index.php/cms/pages/view/593

A 54.5% punctuality average and a 97.5% average for P10 is not good at all. Does anyone know if the threshold for discounts applies to one months figures or the whole year?

I work every weekend in the city (and yes, we do have a 24/7 culture in this country although I wonder if SE is aware of this). Yes engineering works are needed but every other weekend?

I really feel sorry for people struggling up to London 5 days a week because I find it stressful enough just trying to get to work weekends and losing the Cannon Street service has added two hour journey to my two-twelve hour days.

Oh and I don't drive(should get a tax rebate for my eco-credentials!)so I expect to be able to use adequate public transport!

Pathetic service!

It is difficult to add anything new to the comments that have been made. I have been travelling from Maidstone for over 20 years and can say that the service to London is now worse than it has ever been. Like hundreds of other people I need to get to the City. I do not want the extra time, cost and hassle of getting there via Victoria.

last week I needed to get to the O2. It tokk nearly three hours for what amounts to a 35 mile trip.

Today my daughter tried to get from Maidstone to the West End. The only way to do it is via Strood and St Pancras. 4 hours after she left home she phoned to say that the Javelin has broken down in the tunnel and she had been abandoned at Ebbsfleet. They call this an International Station. There were no transport links to get from Ebbsfleet to Maidstone and no support from Southeastern staff. At least when they build the White Horse it will elevate Ebbsfleet to the status of a one horse town.

The real issue in all this is whether Maidstone takes its economy seriously. Nobody in their right mind would choose to live here. If it really does aspire to City status it has very long way to go in getting at least the transport infrastrucure sorted out.

The 1749 from London Bridge to Paddock Wood was cancelled for the third time in a week last night - apparently due to "an earlier train fault". Three trains later, and half an hour late, I got home. This seems to be becoming far too regular an occurrence!

1) Why does it take 1 hous and 15 minutes to get to London peak hours? For 38 miles in the year 2010 ?

2) Why is there a gap of almost 40 minutes am between certain rush hour services ?

3) Why are trains from London to Maidstone hourly after about 8.30pm?
In a 24 hour city ?

4) Why has the only decent, fast well used service to London Bridge been axed?

5) Why are South Eastern running virtually empty trains to St Pancras yet claim they cannot afford the fast London Bridge/ Charing Cross train ?

6) Why do South Eastern continue to cut carriages running numerous 4 car carriages resulting in overcrowding ?

7) Why do hundreds of people from Maidstone feel the need to add to traffic congestion and global warming by driving to Sevenoaks,Paddock Wood, Chatham, Sidcup, New Eltham, Mottingham,Chislehurst, Rochester amongst many other places?

8)WHY does Maidstone not have a train service fit for the year 2010? The trains are now slower, shorter, more overcrwded,irregular than ever before !

WHY DOES NOBODY FROM SOUTH EASTERN LISTEN?

The 0743 from Maidstone West missed the 0806 connection at Paddock Wood yet again this morning. This meant that to stand any chance of getting to work on time, London Bridge/Cannon Street passengers had to get the next train, which is fast to Waterloo East and Charing Cross, and therefore not a suitable connection. We cannot rely on Southeastern to get us to work on time any more, something that has become increasingly apparent over the past few months. And unfortunately, the only altnernative is slow overcrowed trains to Victoria - not a suitable option! The new timetable clearly does not work for Maidstone! And Southeastern's failure to make timetabled connections is just one of many examples as to why!

As stated by Kevin, above, we clearly need to establish not only what exactly the connection policy is, but also how we go about ensuring a reasonable policy is implemented.

It now seems that not only can we not rely on Southeastern to get us to work on time in the morning, but it's becoming increasingly apparent we cannot rely on them to get us home either.

A classic example of this was last night. The 1850 London Bridge to Ramsgate service was delayed en-route and as a result it arrived at Paddock Wood a few minutes after the 1940 connection back to Maidstone was due to depart...which, yet again, had already departed by the time we arrived. This left myself and the other affected commuters with no option but to wait almost an hour for the next service at 2040, on a lonely platform at a closed station in the freezing cold! This is not acceptable! It totally ruined my evening and when I eventually got home at the same time as I had the previous night (when I had stayed at work for another hour), I felt completely tired, frustrated and exasperated!

There were a number of passengers on the late running Ramsgate service reliant upon the 1940 connection at Paddock Wood, so it is not rocket science to work out that the connecting service should have been held until the connection was made.

I can only assume that I am paying Southeastern's increased fare prices for the privilege of having to spend more time than ever on their trains and platforms trying to get to and from work! And to add to the frustration, prior the removal of the fast Cannon Street to Maidstone East service I could have been home in 45 minutes, almost a third of the two hours and 10 minutes it took last night!

Short of buying a car, getting a local job or moving to another part of Kent (and the consequential impact each of these would have on my life), I am completely out of options. And I feel angry and frustrated that I am being forced to make such a drastic choice!

I've read through everyone's comments (both critical and supportive.) I've commuted from Maidstone into the City for over 10 years. When I moved to Maidstone from Bromley we considered anywhere within a radius of an hour or so and specifically settled on Maidstone as it had excellent links into the City. Indeed many of the newer housing developments were marketed on being under an hour to London. I feel really sorry for anyone who has invested in a property in Maidstone in the last 3 or 4 years on that basis and is now not even in a position to sell without losing money on the property.

Effectively, what Southeastern have taken away with one hand they have taken away with the other. Rising prices, reduced services and the constant insistence that the best thing to do is use a High Speed service that takes 1/2hr to connect with, costs far too much to the average commuter and arrives at the wrong side of London.
Although, if you follow the advice of John MacQuarrie from the DfT the best train is a car. I think I'm inclined to agree with him. As the Franchise Manager for South Eastern he should know (and be ashamed of himself).

To try and rescue some of your sanities, for those of you who may not have tried, try running separate timetable searches from London Bridge to Sevenoaks, Sevenoaks to Otford and Otford to Maidstone East. There are some tight connections that go under the radar as they are less than 5 minutes. I use it most days and have been able to get from London Bridge to Maidstone East in 1h6m occasionally....

... assuming everything runs to time which is such a rare occurrence these days I am now keeping a time diary of every journey I make. I just need to know what to do with it. If anyone has a useful answer I'd be most grateful.

Good luck tomorrow and every day after that!

No train at all today, the 7:43 was cancelled, another lat day into the office.

I've just been sitting on the 17:45 service from city thameslink to ashford and heard the words "will the conductor please contact the driver" !!
It turns out that my journey home to Maidstone is again disrupted as now we have been diverted to paddock wood!!!
This service is a joke since the timetable change and I am already planning to move. I have been travelling to the city from Maidstone and this is the worst it has been.
I am disgusted that we have to pay more for this awful service

A side issue for some perhaps but part of the journey experience on Southeastern. I wonder if anyone else feels that the number of public announcements on trains is excessive, and delivered at a volume that is intrusive? I have written several times to Southeastern to request that the announcements be reduced in number and volume, but to no avail. I pointed out that a five-day weekly commuter from Maidstone East to Brixton is subject to 320 announcements, which in my view are fatuous and intrusive. In their reply Southeastern acknowledged that the announcements can be "extremely irritating" (their words) but they did not intend to change their policy as these were of benefit to deaf and blind pssengers. I did not miss the opportunity of pointing out that these announcements were of extremely little value to the deaf, not to mention those of sound hearing. Will common sense ever prevail?

The Dirty Tricks Department at Southeastern were working overtime this morning (15-Mar-2010).
The four carriage 09:18, Maidstone East to Victoria, arrived as usual but this time with one carriage 'Locked Off' for a school trip. They've actually found a way of running a three carriage train!
Needless to say 'Standing Room Only' took on a whole new meaning. If they carry on like this they will need to employ train packers at each station just to get the doors shut.

I am thinking of moving to Maidstone and would like some honest feedback on the train journeys from Maidstone East or Maidstone West (as I can get to my offices from Victoria or St Pancras). As Maidstone is a new area to me, my buying a property in the area depends solely on the train service.

Your honest and valued advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Hi Stephanie

Maidstone East to Victoria is ok, the train takes an hour but there are no changes.

You can't currently get to St Pancras from Maidstone West directly, you would have to change somewhere to get the high speed link which is not great and would be costly.

The service since December 2009 has been particuarly bad. It all depends on what you accept is a decent service, over an hour to Victoria on a busy train isn't great but the upside is the service is direct.

Have a good look at the timetables before you commit

MARUG

Does anybody know how we can influence the awarding of the franchise when up for renewal and bring to the authorities attention the complete contempt with which South Eastern treats Maidstone commuters? Surely we have a voice in this ?

Andy,
Thanks for that, I was aware they were moving the train back a generous 2 minutes, just as well given that on Friday we had another day when the 7:43 arrived at 7:46 and by the time we arrived at Paddock Wood the 8:06 had been and gone.
I still think that even at 7:37 it is going to be touch and go on occasions.

Nothing that the utterly useless train company shocks me any more. About a month ago there was a fatality in the West Malling area. I was surprised when SET divirted the train from Bromley South to Paddock Wood to allow people to get to the Maidstone area. Very impressed until I got to Paddock Wood (very exposed to the elements) on a cold wet night with around 30 other passengers. They never held the connection at Paddock Wood (this line hardly ever runs on time) which meant we had to wait for an hour and ten minutes (running ten mins late) in the cold. What they should of done was stop at Tonbridge where the Strood service starts. We could of sat on a train in the warm at a station with a coffee shop. When the train turned up late there was no apology. There must be a way of getting rid of SET altogether? It is such a poor company at ever level, a total failure. Now when my train is late and there is no annoucements I make a point of asking the guard why we are late, they are employed to assist us after all.

Well I have let the last few painful journeys slide by, but once again Monday 28th the 7:41 arrived at 7:48, once again we were given no explanation and needless to say we missed the Cannon Street service at Paddock Wood.
However some good news appears to be that after the failure to hold the Cannon street earlier in the month when despite the staff at Maidstone West speaking to both the main control and Paddock Wood, and the failure once again to hold the service despite arriving just as the Cannon Street moved off, we do seem to have staff on the platform of late.
Time will tell whether the Paddock Wood manager has now conceded that this is a connecting service or whether he is just enjoying the good weather only time will tell.

This was the response to the same problem on the 9th July:-

Dear Mr Parker

Thank you for your website comment dated 30 June that we received.

I am sorry that you missed your connection when travelling from Maidstone West to London Cannon Street. I appreciate how frustrating this must have been. I also regret the problems that this caused you.

I should reassure you that train planners do their best to co-ordinate services as appropriately as possible. Although we will always do our best to ensure that there is time for passengers from one train to catch another train at the same station, I hope you will appreciate that on our very busy and complex network they cannot schedule every train we run to conveniently connect with another. While we would ideally like to be able to hold all trains that serve as possible connections, I am afraid that this is not possible because of the nature of the integrated operation of railway passenger services.

If we were to hold connecting trains, we will first of all be delaying the passengers who have already boarded this train, who may have connections to catch further down the line, and we also have to bear in mind the fact that, whenever a train is delayed, there will be a knock-on effect to later services, causing more inconvenience to more passengers. Having said this, I can assure you that we make every effort to take all circumstances into consideration where such matters are concerned. Our timetable planning team regularly review the timetable to ensure that there is adequate time for passengers to connect with trains, and we will make alterations to increase connecting times between trains whenever possible.

I will ensure that your concerns are brought to their attention for future consideration. Our Senior Managers also analyse all feedback that we receive, and they subsequently investigate solutions that can attend to the issues raised. In addition our Operations Managers’ review the performance of our network regularly and identify any problem areas. Considering this, I do hope that you don’t encounter such difficulties again. I also hope that you will accept my sincere apologies for the inconvenience that you suffered.


Yours sincerely

Dear Sir /Madam

Why is the service from Maidstone to London so poor ? 10 years ago it took less than an hour. It now takes 25% longer !!!!

I understand the 'fast service' from Ebsfleet is disgracefully underused whilst the rest of us cram on to inadequate, overcrowded trains for a journey which takes twice as long as it should.

I hope the coalition government reviews this situation and how this train company treats its 'customers'

Bring back Connex!